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Brad
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Posted Wednesday, April 21, 2010 @ 10:45 PM  

Is anyone milking daughters of bulls listed in the april top 20 ABVs or perhaps you have reports on some sighted in other herds or those overseas what are you milking that maybe available here in oz that have got you wanting more just like them.
i am particularly in interested in valerian, larfalot, bartpower and happy to hear of others that have improved their on their dam.
is anyone milking or seen any abe daughters
also i am interested in which bull you believe may be the next big thing and have an impact on the breed(from the ABV top 20)


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Posted Wednesday, April 21, 2010 @ 11:56 PM  

I've said it before I believe Tailboard is a very under rated bull consistant daughters and his proof has maintained on 2nd and 3rd crop daughters milking 1 daughter of larfalot have cows in calf to him she is about similar to her dam for both type and production ask Trev about his Valerians he's very happy
Rohan Sprunt
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 00:28 AM  

Hi Brad,

We are milking a couple of 2nd Crop Valerian daughters. REALLY happy with them. Temperment is outstanding, they settle very quickly in the shed & mine have very good let down. They are average height, maybe slightly above average, but they cover a lot of ground ie they are very long. Very snug udders thus far, but they are out of really deep cow families. Have quite a few more to calve in the spring.

The calf rearer here doesnt like the Larfalots. He says the are poor doers & small. But I will persist as we have a number to come & a really aggressive hfr born today.

Cant go past Jace. Had another really good one calve this Autumn.

Jurace - best way for me to describe him, without using trying to be accused of SELF PROMOTION, he has Parade frames, big strong open dairy cows with broad muzzles, but with JACE udders on them, ie can be a little wide & pokey in the front teats. Exceptional milking ability & just soft soft udders. Had a AI rep here tonight & he said he has a client up in western NSW that absolutely loves his in a big big mixed herd with the comments like "never thought I could get so much milk out of a jersey cow". Which is interesting as his proof has jumped with milk volume this proof run. I can understand why with the JURACE's we are milking, they were our top PI group of 2yos last year, & this year as 3yos they are going even harder. Simon Reid purchased the JURACE of ours at IDW & I believe he & Belinda are extremely happy with her.

Considering using BARTPOWER over my JACE blood lines - what does everyone else think about that cross. Jace generally has good stature & teat length which are the 2 flaws in Bartpowers proof. Then again I still have a lot of Action in the can.

Enough rambling

Cheers
Sprunty

Wyndamere
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 07:31 AM  

Hi All,

P.T. tested Valerian, two of original three still going strong - one died from heart defect. They just keep getting better, big cows, quiet and you have to think twice if they have gone through the shed. Have more on the ground and in cows, cant wait until spring when they calve.

P.T. Larfalot also,3 daughters my jury still out! Best daughter died as a calved 3 Y.O. Intact was a better bull from P.T. that year but didnt make it onto team ( I think he died). More Larfalots on ground in the spring, along with Bartpowers.

Had high hopes for Ecology this year but he didnt graduate?!? Milking two beautiful daughters 1* Taranak, 1*Valerian, ordered more semen before proofs came out. Also have some very nice Mediators, very tidy udders, and easy to handle.

My two cents worth.

Regards

Wyndamere

cowgirl
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 11:59 AM  

Remember the days when there were no Australian bred Jersey bulls in the top 20? Correct me if I am wrong, but I worked out that SEVENTEEN out of the 20 are AUSSIES! This is a great achievement and a huge boost to Jerseydom!
Surely now we can have some faith in the local product? It has beaten the often expensive imports hands down.
It's a 'no brainer' really. Why shouldn't Aussie bred bulls - bred and tested to suit Australian dairyfarmers and Australian conditions - have an advantage here? I am saddened to think of how much more Australians could have achieved, if they had given more Aussie bulls - proven and PT- a go. There are comments about good -yet failed- PT bulls that may well have made it if they were given access to the better cows that imported rubbish was used on. Don't get me wrong, Like most of you, I have searched the world looking for the best bulls available and have used them to the advantage of the Aussie herd. I get upset when I hear someone say they only use one company's bulls for instance. a good bull can (and will!) crop up anywhere, why cut yourself out of the good stuff. I also know that farmers all over the world are scanning world ABV's and hoping and praying for that next great bull to take us into an even brighter future. Which one of YOU are going to produce him? Wouldn't it be great if he was a bit outcross? Wouldn't it be fabulous if he were POLLED!
Hixton
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 01:23 PM  

"a good bull can ( and will! ) crop up anywhere" before that you said "imported rubbish" Kind of a contradiction between your two statements. I do agree a good cow or bull is where you find them. Another old saying from my father, "I never saw a good horse with a bad color"
Garcola
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 01:34 PM  

Well said Hixton. If those imported bulls didn't get used to breed the current ones I they wouldn't exist as we know them today.
I use Imported and Local bulls in an effort to breed the best cows possible.

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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 01:55 PM  

A very commen saying on Jersey Island in the old days was " No good cow is a bad colour " which is very like your Dads saying.

Imported rubbish. Very few Aussie bulls get used in kiwiland but I would hope they aren't rubbish if they do get used. Yarrvale Danny Boy wasa good bull as was Francliff Coranation.

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tassie
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 02:42 PM  

no such thing as Aussie bulls they all have international pedigrees they just happen to stand in Aus
Valerian - JePerimeter
Spiritual - Avery
Bartpower - Flowerpower who was an Alf
Badger, Larfalot, Foundation, Tailboard - all by Taranak

Bulls I have used at home.
Currently milking daughters of
Astound - nice udders tend to lack milk bit tight in the pins.
Minstrel - not super tall, huge barrells, touch high in pins, all PI over 100 just keep milking.
Augustus - probably my favourite group, nice udders bit tight in pins but most are out of Astound cows.
Badger - not as consistant as would of hoped but still quite nice overall.
Saratoga - lovely frames just udders tend to be all shapes and sizes.

Hfrs due spring by Valerian, Parade, Foundation
Spring 09 by Valerian, Spiritual, Bartpower, Parade
Due 2010 by Valerian, Spiritual, Gannon, Actionman

Spiritual - tall, nice dairy looking calves, have used him alot on my x's and hols cows/hfrs as well watching %'s
Valerian - not as tall bit thicker set, bigger barrells used on alot of low % hols cows/hfrs as well
Bartpower - miserable little sulks in shed, ok now they in the feed lot but I hated his calves.
Foundation - much the same as Badger

cowgirl
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 06:33 PM  

OK, I stuck my chin out, Didn't quite get the wording right...... but you cannot deny there have been lots of heavily hyped up bulls that have faded away, leaving nothing of note. Bred nothing but choppers. This would make a very interesting thread for this forum, if contributors would be honest and fair about who was good and who was not. To be fair myself, it's often not till we have milked the daughters that we know which of the O/S bulls will convert profitably to Aussie conditions.
I do NOT class all imported bulls as 'rubbish' and you can't be serious if you think that is what I meant. Most reasonably bred bulls will sire some good daughters and all bulls will produce the odd really ugly, useless one.
I am still impressed with how Australian breeders have used the best obtainable genetics and used it to improve the breed overall. What's WRONG with that? I am really enjoying the comments from tassie and co. How they rate the cows by various bulls in their herds. Interesting how some are loved in some herds and loathed in others. It is really helpful to hear about how the cows look, so you know how to get the best out of how you use the bull.


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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 09:02 PM  

we've just started calving ,so haven't given any thought to next joinings other than where can I find a poll !!
Seriously though, Cowgirl the best bit was the last sentence in your post. Thats what it is about, and you'd be flat out, barring Australian Pure Jersey Breeders Soc., to find an Aussie bull. Not just a bull that was born here, Aussie cow family or not. And you have to agree, there have been some PT absolute crap that has come through the system along with the good ones. Aussie bulls may not work over sea's either , just as overseas don't work here sometimes, just because we have differing systems.Horses for courses.


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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 09:21 PM  

Stoned
I definately agree with your horses for courses comment its not just bulls breeding differently between countries it happens here on different farms with different genetics or diffent management systems I know some people that loath Astound others would put him in the best bulls they've used
All "Aussie bulls" are a mix of overseas blood and nearly always have been if we went through any index list in the last 30 yeasr I doubt whether any bull would have a full Australian pedigree they will have either NZ , north American , Danish or jersey Island bulls in their 3 generation pedigree.
the 2 bulls that Glenbrook mentioned as Aussie bulls Coronation was the son of a Tarnhowe cow {NZ} Yarravale Danny Boy was by lang park spotted dan who was sired by Dundee Dandy {NZ} I could go down every list and show lester/ berretta/ Taranak/ avery/ Glanton Red Dante'/ Birdgrove Brackenberry the list goes on of overseas influential genetics in our high index bulls.some even have australian prefixes BUT are fully imported pedigrees eg Flowerpower
Like it or not so called "Aussie genetics" are a mix of world genetics that suit our environment NOT purely Australian bred bulls for 3 generations
Yes there have been some proven bulls from overseas that have been well promoted and very disappointing but there have also been Australian proven Bulls at All AI companies that have been well promoted then dropped off the planet on 2nd or 3rd crop daughters and I'm prepared to name these bulls if I need to

[Edit by motor on Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 09:24 PM]

Brad
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 09:47 PM  

lets not get too political and focus on sharing your experience on the question at hand and detail what you are seeing in your part of the world(and thanks to those that have done so already) in relation to the original post

i value all contributions and look forward to many more

still want to hear more of valerian(even keen to find out how the valerian cow family is performing), elton and interested to hear of any abes that are in milk particularly in oz.

would like to know also what is hot around the globe and why?

jugiong
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 10:04 PM  

We have 6 Valerians calved, great framed heifers but udders are average at best and temprement also could be much better. Another very good group of Jace daughters, such great texture and great shed heifers.
wallacedale
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Posted Thursday, April 22, 2010 @ 11:03 PM  

Brad we are milking 2 second crop Eltons, they are not PIing anywhere near as high on 2nd calf. They have very fast milking speed and high components, neither are as good as dams for type though but still ok. Valerians dont start until late May along with 1 or 2 BosRefute ( Valerians cow family) Valerians dam and his grand dam are full sisters. Still nothing coming through that tops our Actions for consistancy of type and PI's. Just calved another thick thighed Badger cant see her PI being any better than 3 of the other lower than ave PI ones I am milking! Biestar I calved in the same day will blow her away. As will the Brookbi and Action heifers who came in a few days before.
Have 6 Valerians to calve, 8 Parades,5 more Badgers(bugger actually these look better), 6 Bosrefute (PT) 1 jace, 1 Astound, 1 Ressurection,1 Rhumona,1 Lester Sambo,1 Gainful(PT),1 Brookbi . For interest sake the dams average class score is 89.4 points so I hope there are a few good ones among them! Cant wait for the Parades to calve down!
Also have the 3 oldest BOSACTIONMAN daughters in the country born Nov '08 due Nov '10.
Our 2nd calf Jurace had a PI 100 @ 2yrs PI @ 96 this lactation ct'd . Nice young cow with a good udder and very soft texture will last a long time.
I also hated my few Bartpower calves very small most of them!
Rohan Sprunt
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Posted Friday, April 23, 2010 @ 00:06 AM  

Brad,

Forgot to mention that we will hook into Action again & Maack Dairy Region heavily this Autumn. I love my Legions & he is a Legion son from a Lemvig. His proof looks very good.

There is a bull called Eclipse that looks very good at the moment in the USA, but unfortunately very low daughter numbers.

We are milking 2 Maximum dtrs. Like them a lot. Very good open frames with good udders (just a little too much udder). Much better udders that I thought I was going to get from a Lemvig x Maid cross. Really good mid sections to them, plenty of chest width with great feet & legs. 1 is Farrells & she calved last spring & PTIC to Navara. Still producting 1.14KgF at 185 days in with good milk volume. I probably should use him over the likes of Sabers etc that need test & more grunt. I'm pretty sure Lynton & Lisa Broad are milking some as well.

Interesting that Pat's Valerians temperment could be improved. Our 2 havent lifted a leg & they have plenty of room to move around as our shed was built to accomodate our Holsteins. Our original PT Valerian had a Navara bull last August & he is already at ABS & she is PTIC to Larfalot for August 2010. Unfortunately never had a heifer. She has a 4 lact ave PI of 107, with LIFETIME records of 5.44%F & 4.34%P & will produce just on 30,000L in those 4 lact (7,500L ave). Hopefully all these 2nd crop dtrs will have similar components. Just what the breed wants I say - Total solids

A bull I used quite heavily last spring was Fantom from WWS. He leaves great big framed cows with really good fore udders being extremely shallow. Really good feet & legs but only a very moderate milk bull. He is a Millionheir (maximum's full brother) x Hallmark x Pitino I think is the sire line & the 2 dams are both Ex.

Cheers
Sprunty

meldan
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Posted Friday, April 23, 2010 @ 11:02 AM  

Re the Larfalot calves, agree with Sprunty, calf feeder here, me, dosent like them. Small frial poor doers, will rear the ones that are born this year but wont use him again. Looking at the calves he dosent appear to be the strength bull we thought that he was going to be. Like most people, happy with the Gannon calves and really like the few navaras we have.

We are milking the Jace sister to Bos Refute (Valerians Family) Pi @ 114 which makes her 3rd highest in the herd, she will be our top milk 2yo. Superb docile tempermeant. We have bred her to Navara, at this stage she appears in calf.

I just sold a line of springing heifers which includes 5 Valerians, one will be outstanding, 2 will be handy and the last 2 look plainer.I think Valerian will be an in and out bull. They are certainly all taller and longer than the other heifers in the group, no doubt thats where the production will come from, I think of him as the Jersey equivilent of Donor (B&W bull), and expect he may leave a similar legacy.

We will be using Mack Dairy Region, Merchant as our Jace son, Action and PT Masquarade and BosFroment (Valerian son), may look at some Jurace for the spring and some more PT.

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tassie
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Posted Friday, April 23, 2010 @ 12:53 PM  

I like the look of your BosFroment bull Meldan, will use some here in the autumn other than that their will be at least one Jace son used and maybe some Sandblast.

Still a while off yet and have to what & see what is in the catalogues and $$$$$$.

Daz
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Posted Friday, April 23, 2010 @ 03:22 PM  

Interesting comments re the Larfalot calves, i really like mine.
Alastair Grant
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Posted Friday, April 23, 2010 @ 10:32 PM  

Milking 2 Larfalot daughters. Now both on second calves. Both PI 100+. Great frames but udders not good, in particular their ligament is poor. I reluctantly used this bull again on the strength of his proof.

4 Eltons milking. 3 of 4 with 100+ PI. Consistently white in colour with deep bodies. Functional udders. More pregnancies due and will continue to use.

Have 16 Badger daughters in over the last couple of years. Mostly good PIs however a few are very lazy with poor rear udders and lacking in dairyness. They are consistently fertile cows and very few come back after the first round of AI.

For those that where fans of Augustus, JEVirgil was a PT bull by Augustus from the taranak Vanessa cow I used with good results. He didn't get enough daughters to get publishised, but if you like a punt he would be worth considering. OK for production and really good type on his proof so far. Merv York (Almervista) has a couple of crackers by him that I know of that classified really well.

Interesting comments on "overpriced overseas bulls". The bulls ranked at 1, 3 and 6 on APR are overpriced, with imported bulls such as Celebrity and Region offering better value for money even though they won't rank as high. This is dissapointing.

Garcola
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Posted Friday, April 23, 2010 @ 11:17 PM  

Milking a JEVIRGIL ( Fleurieu Augustus x Daraway Taranak Vanessa ) have another 6 Virgil's
Garcola Virgil Harmony = Calved end January currently PI 130
Shown at Jersey Autumn Fair 1st 2 1/2 yrs IN MILK / Honourable mention Intermediate
and at Mt Barker a week later 1st 2 1/2 yrs IN MILK / Champion Jersey Heifer and CHAMP DAIRY HEIFER ALLBREEDS
Just remated harmony to JECLANCY (Barber Bill x Centurion Tara ) Milking 7 with awesome udders and rib.

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Cheers GAZ

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Posted Monday, April 26, 2010 @ 10:49 AM  

Have had a couple more Larfalot calves born, bigger and stronger. Maybe he is not too bad after all. Got a set of mixed Gannon twins from a crossbred cow, one chocolate and one jersey brown, both big.

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cowgirl
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Posted Tuesday, April 27, 2010 @ 00:15 AM  


the first Gannon calf out of the heifers I joined last year was was pulled today. She's a huge calf. More to come.
wallacedale
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Posted Friday, April 30, 2010 @ 10:53 AM  

Had about a dozen or so Larfalot calves born this autumn. They have all been ok for size with very broad strong heads mostly.
cowgirl
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Posted Friday, April 30, 2010 @ 01:29 PM  

I have been wondering whether or not we should be commenting on the sires of the cows these good or bad calves are coming out of? If you are getting ripper calves out of a particular cross, it would be great to know about it, and vice versa.
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Posted Tuesday, May 11, 2010 @ 07:10 PM  

Have waited to post here to give fresh heifers a chance to make an impression (good or bad) it seems from comments already posted our autumn calving is a little later than others.

We have 3 Valarians calved, all going well. Good size, lots of length and oomph - if you need to find a fault at this early stage maybe a bit blowsy in the udder but they haven't had a chance to really settle in physically yet. A BIG tick for temperament so far, only one a bit twitchy and she started herself off on a kicking session on the kick rail without anyone being near her by the time she went out she was limping a bit but afterwards has stood very well. One has made a big impression with the Boss as she is milking well, looks good and has excellent temperament, she is out of a Mediator.

We still have 3 of 5 PT Larfalot daughters, 2 were sold for temperament but looked good and seemed to milk well. These 3 are producing well 2 are standout type and the 3rd is pretty good. We have a few in calf in the hope the temperament problem was a coincidence, no problem with the calves though no smaller than others. They are still milking very well.

Because he is in the top 20 I have to say we have 5 Manhattan daughters all producing very well. We were very lucky and had no problems with any genetic disorder at all and they are maturing into great cows.

We have two Tailboards that have been a pleasant suprise, they were small calves and seemed to be frail growing up, but have continued to grow and mature through their first lactation, not huge producers but look like they will mature well. Very good shed temperament.

We have about 8 Badgers all doing OK, bit quieter on their second lactation than 1st but still growing and maturing and conditions haven't been great feed wise. Temperament is OK once they mature a bit, not as easy as the Valarians to break in (but better than Larfalot).

Wyndamere,
Pleased to see your comments

Quote:
Had high hopes for Ecology this year but he didnt graduate?!? Milking two beautiful daughters 1* Taranak, 1*Valerian, ordered more semen before proofs came out. Also have some very nice Mediators, very tidy udders, and easy to handle.

We had high hopes for Ecology as well, he was an older bull when he left here and was quite a good looker to our minds so we felt pretty confident he would go OK for type. Unfortunately we didn't get any daughters as our semen went missing between leaving GA and arriving at ABS who we were testing with at the time, so we had no indication ourselves of how he had gone. So very frustrating to find his proof was pretty darn good - APR 136 (even positive for milk) OT 109 Mam 107 and stature 116 Rear Att W 110. Only to be told he was rated Temp 101 Lik 101 to fall over with a Milking Speed of 98....
The other bull we sent that year was Nuture who we have daughters from who have done well and look pretty good, but unfortunately his proof wasn't looking fantastic at Miniblup time so he wasn't nominated for linears and ended up coming into April with 154 APR which would have slotted him into top 20 but of course it is too late now.
I am pleased you have some good Mediators, we have several milking and most are above average producers, although some weren't the nicest they could be in the shed as heifers a couple are excellent producers. They should be long lived, his mother only left last year due to mastitis at about 14.

A bit more time will tell on the heifers but not regretting the dozen or so Valerians waiting down the paddock at this stage.

Wyndamere
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Posted Tuesday, May 11, 2010 @ 10:59 PM  

I cannot believe his milking speed as both of mine are very fast to milk out and when finished look like wrung towels.
G.A. are supposed to have more semen put away for me , I hope they have!!
Deb
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Gender: Female
Location: Modella
Registered: Mar 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 72

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Posted Thursday, May 13, 2010 @ 11:25 AM  

I have a few Valerian & Spiritual calves from last year. They are lovely BIG framey calves with awesome temperaments (especially the Valerians). Can't wait to see how they perform.
I have to make a decision pretty soon what to do this season but I just want to use all the same again really. Specially Valerian. Love the Outinfronts, Flowerpowers, Spirtuals, Mediators etc. Great producers to date. But am always happy to learn about new & exciting ways to go instead. I have to learn to keep up with the modern world.
Cheers
Deb

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Of course you can trust me, I'm a Taurus!

Deb
Sergeant First Class

Gender: Female
Location: Modella
Registered: Mar 2006
Status: Offline
Posts: 72

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Posted Thursday, May 13, 2010 @ 11:34 AM  

ps, would you believe we STILL have a cow by Motor in our herd??

--------------------
Of course you can trust me, I'm a Taurus!

rockraven
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Gender: Male
Location: North Carolina, USA
Registered: Apr 2004
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Posted Thursday, May 13, 2010 @ 01:30 PM  

Artificial or natural service?
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